Experts Say Exploiting Anthropic’s Fable Isn’t How Kimi K3 Got So Good


Source: Tim Fernholz / techcrunch.com

Allegations of Model Distillation Spark Debate in AI Sector

White House science advisor Michael Kratsios recently accused Moonshot, a Chinese company behind the Kimi K3, of exploiting Anthropic’s Fable LLM by copying its capabilities. However, experts are skeptical about the role of distillation in the development of Kimi K3.

Distillation is the process of querying an LLM to determine its inner workings and copy its capabilities. However, it’s not clear if this process is responsible for the advanced capabilities displayed by Kimi K3. According to Braden Hancock, a researcher at the Laude Institute, ‘I don’t think you get a model this strong and this quickly on the heels of Fable doing strictly distillation.’

Distillation requires a lab to systematically query its target model in order to generate data that can be used for post-training. This process can involve asking the model to articulate its chain-of-thought to understand how it solves problems. Other times, the prompts and responses from a model are used to train a new model in a process called supervised fine-tuning, or SFT.

However, experts argue that distillation is not the only factor contributing to the development of advanced models like Kimi K3. Nathan Lambert, an AI researcher at the Allen Institute for AI, pointed out that ‘the benefits of SFT are becoming less important as models become more complex.’ He added that ‘to distill Fable-like capabilities would likely require reinforcement learning techniques.’

Reinforcement learning techniques involve having an agent of the larger model grade the smaller model’s responses, and adjusting based on the grade. This process requires more significant infrastructure and can be expensive. According to Sam Bresnick, a research fellow at Georgetown’s Center for Security and Emerging Technology, ‘using a frontier lab’s API to do that would be insanely expensive and potentially it would probably be a time bottleneck.’

The debate surrounding distillation and its role in the development of advanced models like Kimi K3 highlights the complex and often contentious nature of the AI sector. As the industry continues to evolve, it’s clear that the lines between innovation and intellectual property theft will continue to blur.

The case of Moonshot and its alleged use of distillation to develop Kimi K3 is just one example of the ongoing debate in the AI sector. As experts continue to weigh in on the role of distillation, it’s clear that the issue is far from resolved.

In fact, distillation is seen as common among AI companies, not just in China. Elon Musk testified earlier this year that his company SpaceXAI distilled OpenAI models to develop Grok, and that the practice was common in the industry. The line between distillation and developing synthetic data sets, for example, can be fairly blurry.

As the debate surrounding distillation continues, it’s clear that the issue is complex and multifaceted. While some experts argue that distillation is a key factor in the development of advanced models, others argue that it’s not the only factor contributing to their success.

The role of reinforcement learning techniques, for example, is becoming increasingly important in the development of advanced models. According to Nathan Lambert, ‘to distill Fable-like capabilities would likely require reinforcement learning techniques.’

However, reinforcement learning techniques require more significant infrastructure and can be expensive. According to Sam Bresnick, ‘using a frontier lab’s API to do that would be insanely expensive and potentially it would probably be a time bottleneck.’

Allegations of Model Distillation Spark Debate in AI Sector

The debate surrounding distillation and its role in the development of advanced models like Kimi K3 highlights the complex and often contentious nature of the AI sector. As the industry continues to evolve, it’s clear that the lines between innovation and intellectual property theft will continue to blur.

As experts continue to weigh in on the role of distillation, it’s clear that the issue is far from resolved. The case of Moonshot and its alleged use of distillation to develop Kimi K3 is just one example of the ongoing debate in the AI sector.